Due to the damage this fire has caused Im sure there will be follow-up effects (and recriminations) for years. The person or people responsible for the fire have not yet been found. Even though I am located adjacent to the National Forest lands on 3 sides, I cannot invite them onto my property to help me lessen the fuel load proximal to my home. We strive to use real facts, not alternative facts, on Wildfire Today. The forecast issued Sunday included this text in the Discussion section: High pressure will hang on for Sunday with sunny skies and above normal temperatures. The 6pm and 7pm newscasts could have been leveraged by TEMA to order an evacuation then, before lines went down, power went out and cell towers on fire. Even though they are showing people receiving checks the day they apply, this was not the case for him. Gatlinburg is in Sevier County. This is how the devastating Gatlinburg wildfire erupted overnight But, that team is there to give future corrective actions, not to formulate lawsuits. Brush fires spread across multiple counties this afternoon in Southwest Florida due to high winds. And no doubt books both factual and not on this event. Lets look in the mirror before we are too quick to blame someone else. The whole thing is unconscionable to me. All the guy in the truck told us was that they had dug a fire line and were told to wait here. Then another large red pickup came down from Turkey Nest Road and stopped in front of us. The status of individual structures in the Gatlinburg area can be found at arcgiscom. They had access to the same fire flight info from Sundays flyover that other agencies had. Rockslide on the Spur Gatlinburg Pigeon Forge - wate.com Local folks here who have been involved with Park issues have an old saying about the NPS and their mismanagement of historic structures. Bats were roosting in the church rafters and dropping feces onto the pews. U.S. Park Service (again) and Thanksgiving. Kids should be charged and pay a price but so do several officials in the good old boy still lives on in the town of Gatlinburg. I was on the phone w them that Mon. It is so much easier to sit on the outside, pass judgement and sentencing in the name of accountability than it is to be involved in the event of vulnerability in action. This eventually will affect us all at some point in time, as we too may one day find ourselves faced with similar circumstance. Just looking at media coverage on the evacuation order public messaging snafu points out that this fire will provide many lessons learned for future fire managers. > Jeannine In my 40 years in the fire service (Calif and Alaska), I have seen an unfortunate number of cases where agencies in generaland the NPS in particulardesignate fires as monitored event(s) (insert favorite agency terminology here) that hours, or days, later explode into huge incidents. I was in the area hiking November 21 and there was no smoke coming from the Chimneys area. For the availability of resources our local volunteer departments are doing a good job, but things are changing and we need to get out of the boxes we are in, and start critical thinking and creatively to meet the challenges of the future because they are rapidly descending upon us whether we like it or not. If you take a hands off approach with minimal management and indirectly Play God look out. I called Bob back and told him I was leaving hurriedly and that I would call him when we had made it out of woods to Pigeon Forge. On Monday November 28 it recorded wind gusts in that part of the state at46 to 60 mph, and a 76 mph gust on Wednesday. Circular holes in the ground spread around the forest floor for no apparent reason, no evidence in sight, no history of mining activity, most of the oldest living trees around the same height/age. It upset a lot of locals, but many lauded it. What the kids did was extremely wrong and they should and will be punished for it but any Philadelphia lawyer work his retainer fee well get these kids off with no more than arson and reckless endangerment. His parents died in the fire in Gatlinburg . Jordans comments on the video indicates that their management was taking care to show how they were not responsible. The massive Gatlinburg wildfires, which began in November, caused the deaths of 14 people, injured 175 others and destroyed homes and towns all around eastern Tennessee. They were flying water drops on Sunday with the equipment available (National Guard choppers). (Bloomberg) -- Zoom Video Communications Inc. slumped in early trading Friday after abruptly terminating the employment of . My main purpose in commenting was to differentiate between a monitored wildfire and prescribed fire. One of the owners of the impacted businesses called a contractor to demolish a damaged portion of the building. At any rate, I have not heard any knowledgeable person say acquiring resources during those first five days was a major difficulty. Unfortunately its the home owners that are taking the hit and I think it should be them. Our place was gone. Frankly people should lose their jobs and fault should be placed on their shoulders. Hopefully all of those affected will be able to begin again. All downtown sidewalks reopened as permanent fencing around the building was installed by the property owner following the fire. When maintenance employees with GRSM drove past the Chimney Tops 2 Fire early Mondaymorning they saw that the intensity and rate of spread of the fire had increased dramatically. Can fire experts examine burned areas and decipher the path of natural wildfire from managed ignited fires? When we reached Turkey Nest Road there was a big white crewcab pickup truck parked in front of Barbaras Real Estate. It is my understanding this first fire was at or near the summit in the immediate vicinity of the 2nd fire which unfortunately devastated Gatlinburg. Thanks for the correction Bill. Report: Gatlinburg fire caused $7 million in damages. He told me he was scared to drive the truck-its a lot more cumbersome in the local terrain than his little Outback. there is still a nagging question regarding the use of BACKFIRE on the part of the NPS and the Gatlinburg Fires? So sometime during the night as we now know everything burned down. I know for a fact that all humans are not as tuned into Nature as others. Often times in seeking to take out a person, the real root causes go unaddressed, and sometimes that includes some people taking the fall for decisions of others that were major contributing factors. That said, it is always easier for those outside of the forest to see the big picture then those who are standing inside the trees down on the forest floor. I wish this would turn into the biggest Court case in history. of them backing up and saying this isnt our problem we are carrying on just like always. It certainly should be addressed, by We, the People. a wind and weather event like they got, that resulted in fire spread that resulted the the state TEMA command center to have to relocate in the middle of the incident gives a picture of what they were dealing with. But the pickup trucks I encountered were full of wildfire firefighters, inside the City of Gatlinburg. Sandra, I agree. So my husband called the Gatlinburg policy department with the same questions and got the same answers. Most of us are hopeful the two young man responsible for causing this fire will be severely punished however after all of the expert testimony to not only the Knoxville news Sentinel times what other periodicals claiming gross mishandling of the beginning of the Chimney Tops 2 fire by the forestry service as well as the Gatlinburg fire department I am certain that the Philadelphia lawyer that they have hired will use this in their defense and I would not bet that they will get a much lighter sentence as a result . In late 2016, wildfires . The fire resulted in the deaths of 14 people and more than $500 million in damage, with firefighting costs of more than $7 million. Out of all the issues evolving around negligence and what could have been done, etc. Officials said three people were found dead from fires in the Chalet Village area, and one person was discovered dead near a motel on Highway 321. We warned them about the approaching fire before turning the opposite direction to proceed on downtown. Sweeney, to be honest weve never experienced circumstances quite like this. I thanked her, hung up and told Stanton to go load Ladys kennel. Well said, the terrain here is different than a lot of places, even out west. It is a sad state of affairs, the loss of life was quite avoidable. From my back ground in fire, safety and as a fire investigator I see the development of a chain of multiple, unusual and totally unexpected events leading up to final blowup. Have a wildland fire news tip? Those are low numbers for the southeastern United States. Shortly after he left, he called my husband to tell him that the road between our house and downtown Gatlinburg was blocked by a crew from Sevier County Electric. To echo your statements, the information is out there, a model exists on how to properly do it now its getting the proper training for all of the professionals involved and the public taking the role of accountability watchdogs. Was the fire that inaccessible on foot? A similar fire occurred on English Mountain. Case in point, the wildfires in Florida 1998, in which those experts were unaware of or underestimated the burning intensity of the Palm Oils from the Florida flora, which were as flammable liquid fires during those wildfires. The Spur between Pigeon Forge to Gatlinburg is open from Pigeon Forge to the Gatlinburg Welcome Center. NO managing wildfire is much more complex, especially in a multiple fire drought driven incident like managers were dealing with on this incident. Chief Kurtz was right on target to compare South Canyon, Yarnell, and now Chimney Top 2. Are Gatlinburg fires common? A list of big fires in the area [2022] Once again: the questions remain unanswered. The fire, which was reported at 6:39 a.m. Sunday in the 700 block of Parkway, caused extensive damage to a block of businesses, the city's spokesperson said. On Sunday when GSMNP called in helicopter water drops, there were 3 fire tanker planes sitting on the runway 20 minutes away in Chattanooga (covered in Wildfire Today). With that all happening before lunch. This area was in the process of being logged prior to the wildfire, (supposedly started by a logging train) of 1925. Not clouding the issues with the intent to take down a person. They are having a press conference this afternoon so perhaps there will be more transparency. A guy in the red pickup rolled down his window and said You have to get out of here! My husband and I turned around, drove back to the Parkway and out the Spur to Pigeon Forge. The one picture showing a PVC clean-out with charring on it is a very good example of a very fast, hot torch of flame blasting a relatively small area. Henry, do you know the effect of the typical southeastern forest ground fires on the hemlock adelgid? Instead, the city ordered evacuation of the neighborhoods nearest the NPS day use area that was on fire (Mynatt Park and others). Alice Hagler was reported missing by her family and later confirmed dead. Its hard to see. The coordination and communication of the Incident Management teams is impressive. You certainly got it right when you said that sometimes government does not listen and it takes a loud voice. Cafe 420 and Gifts of Gatlinburg were also destroyed. They were taught with classroom didactic and hands on training, by sharing of lessons learned by others, and the best learning opportunity available, the best teacher of all; the actual experience itself. I turned on tv to see if there were warnings of any sort. They had no sirens or Claxons blaring, no shouting to evacuate thru their grill mounted speakers. What is these adults had taken immediate action to correct and intervene in this unsafe behavior by children. We were there from May until early November. I was afraid to go into Park with boys. I am not convinced that all of what is considered to be the Chimney Tops 2 fire is. She may have chosen poor timing, and perhaps not the best method of tackling the issues, but nonetheless we need to start asking the tough questions without being so offended and then take a good hard look at the issues, and how they can be resolved. On the radio, a man in the Forestry truck was somewhere around the Roaring Fork area (as I recall) looking for possible spot fires reported near a residence and was talking about the strong winds. Good point, Ms. Horton. The report said the fire was an accident and caused around $7 million in damages. I would hope that we would fund the National Park Service much better so that cost-cutting is not so high on their priorities. Humans lostfire won. Nonetheless, your observations on the 21st indicate that no signs of the 14th fire were present; and if the NPS did fully suppress the first fire, their timeline was undoubtedly non-aggressive to do so. I would like to express that there are sincere and dedicated folks working for the National Park Service. The deaths in this incident can be attributed to being trapped and forced to shelter in place. The park should have been begging for help and putting out warnings all week end!!! Aircraft dropping water or fire retardant on a fire cannot put it out. Thanksgiving weekend is one of the 4 busiest weekends for Gatlinburg and the National Park. Many on that team are not NPS employees, but are highly experienced wildfire fighters. National Park Service Supervisory Park Ranger (Protection) in I am glad so many are taking a look at this situation, and hopefully never loosing sight of the intention to improvement and a better way. The Thomas Divide Complex Fire comprises two wildfires the 140-acre Stone Pile Fire and the Cooper Creek Fire, which is estimated to be 170 acres. Most of those resources were involved in those ongoing fires and unavailable for immediate response to a small fire, when it was still small. At least seven people have died and dozens have been hospitalized in wildfires in Tennessee that have ravaged a popular tourist town and forced thousands from their homes. The remains of a business in Gatlinburg, Tenn., smolder on Nov. 29, after a devastating wildfire damaged or destroyed more than 2,000 buildings and killed at least 14 people. The leafless trees allowed more sunlight to hit the fuel, drying it out even more. Bob headed our way. As a mountain boy who loves the harshest terrain even I couldnt imagine trying to run a fire line in this area. The governor needs to hear that, as well. I said at the time thatvwas crazy, evac. and see if he could get any information. According to Public Information Officer Seth Butler, the Gatlinburg Fire Department and the Pigeon Forge Fire Department were dispatched to downtown Gatlinburg at 6:39 a.m. on Sunday, Oct.. All without the but why reflection, cause and effect analysis, drill down technique and the inter-relationship effect. The fire gutted the entire city block and closed a dozen businesses. Since November 29 it has rained about every 2 to 3 daysin the Gatlinburg area. The GSMNP PR person announced at 2:02 pm that fires were expected to grow over the next 8 hours with wind gust of 85 mph. Since we had been planning all day to go downtown to play trivia at Smoky Mountain Brewery, we left the house about 5:55PM. Corker and Alexander know what would happen if they tried to interfere with a Federal prosecution! I learned that it is extremely difficult to manage, rather than suppress, a wildland fire for an extended period of time. Back home in West TN, when tornado warnings were active in a particular area there were loud sirens that went off. We stopped long enough to make sure they saw the fire coming and proceeded on down the mountain. We are to be stewards of the land. They had the same weather forecast information. This is how the devastating Gatlinburg wildfire erupted overnight By Angela Fritz November 29, 2016 at 1:06 p.m. EST Wildfires raging in the Tennessee resort towns of Gatlinburg and Pigeon. We must as you say accept that humans are emotional beings and that goes for those who lost and those who stand to perhaps lose their jobs and livelihood often for making the best decisions they could with what was available to them at the time. Between 2 p.m. and 6 p.m.they increased to 7 to 15 mph with gusts of 22 to 32 mph all generally out of the south, blowing toward Gatlinburg. The identities of the three killed have not been released . My husband and I were at our house in Gatlinburg, just north of the Park Vista, on the night of the fire. The terrain was steep, a vertical distance of 1,300 feet from the bottom of the drainages to the top of the hill. Im sure there will be lots of finger pointing, name calling pushing for blame and then legal actions. Common since would tell you a mountain fire in wind and drought would move very fast!!! I remember a news A day or so later where that fire chief of the Gatlinburg stated that they knew on Sunday that it was predicted the fire would hit Gatlinburg proper by 11 AM on Tuesday morning. If the Park Service had done there job in the first place and City and County leaders would have stepped in and done something this could and would have been prevented. Even the Gatlinburg Fire Chief had been told on Sunday at 0900 that models had the fire hitting downtown Gatlinburg by Tuesday 1100. Ms.Schroer said she was not aware of any actual on-the-ground fire suppression efforts, other than perhaps some work on a distant indirect fireline, until Monday November 28, after the fire had grown large and crossed US Highway 141, the main road into the park. The dead hemlock had to have been of huge impact to the fire. One only has to imagine a single downed power line starting a structure fire at the same time the wildfire was approaching to understand how the great loss of property and life actually happened. They just sat back and watched it burn. Whether a tornado, hurricane or natural disaster, it weighs on your psyche. Thats totally untrue. So who would you blame the people that died, wildlife and homeowners. The earlier fire on the hill was named Chimney Tops hence the name Chimney Tops 2 for the new blaze. Where was all the HELP TO PUT THIS FIRE OUT A WHEN IT STARTED???? I doubt it as the experience there is of fast moving potentially devastating fires. He should loose his job and be prosecuted for this mess he created. I was surprised that we saw no one at the closed Chimneys parking area early morning when we drove by. I am positive that for anyone who gives of themselves to protect and serve will forever be haunted by that far more than anyone of us can expect to hold them accountable by lynching. The fire was reported to be near the Twin Creeks Picnic Center at 1130. The devastation of the Gatlinburg wildfires offered hope, in a - Yahoo! He also raked as many leaves as he could from around our cabin. That didnt work out. It is good to question everything, all is not as it appears. Fire-wanted or unwanted- is not a warm and fuzzy abstract thing it is often portrayed in todays media and society to play around with. It is very steep terrain, I would estimate about a 65 degree incline, but it is not easy to fall to your death there. night at 9pm when mom said there was evacuation notice on TV. My boys and I do not have images of wildfires that we would have seen had we waited to leave home. We watched the news the rest of evening. http://henryspoetry.blogspot.com/2016/12/cabin-on-creek-and-chimneys-top-2-fire.html, http://henryspoetry.blogspot.com/2016/12/great-chimney-tops-2-fire-science.html. Asked if I knew if there were any other people down in that area. All weekend, my husband and daughter followed the fire on the Chimney Tops 2 facebook page NPS had established. Approximately 14,000 residents were originally forced to evacuate. Can we allow room for others to fail forward? Very well put Mari. As a contractor I worked with a Dunes engine in Michigan MI years ago. I heard a comment that people have the use common sense. TEMA had the power and authority, yet did nothing until Hell was at their door. This country was founded on open respectful discussion, such as this which has occurred in this article commentary and blog comments. By 4:00PM the wind was getting stronger and we were not getting any updated information from local TV news. Any person involved in any sort of firefighting/fire ecology/fire control/fire management profession learns these basic fire physic scientific principals from day oneeither from formal training or through hands on fire behavior observations . As one who has had experience and ready mix, concrete block, pavers, and pre-cast, one would be a fool to rebuild on ANY existing foundation that came in contact with temperatures approaching 3,000F. Drought, fall winds, fuel moistures that havent recovered in months, what part of this disaster was a surprise. I hope the report gives the reason why the tanker planes were never called in since they are co-managed by the NFS and NPS. Impressive. One option could be helicopter fire repellers to repel into the fire and make an assessment of risk. I can hear it now, hasnt the NPS learned anything in the past 10-20 yrs? Perhaps a simple thing like calling for a Voluntary Evacuation from Noon on that day could have made the danger more obvious in light of the forecast for storm warnings with high winds for the afternoon and overnight. 3:36 p.m. Gatlinburg Fire Department is going door-to-door asking residents to voluntarily evacuate to a Red Cross evacuation shelter set up at the Gatlinburg Community Center located at 156 . I told him we would come pick him up in his car. Thank-you Bill for your through and in depth analysis of this wildfires chain-of events.
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